Gives Cavs two extra first round picks from the Celtics in the stacked 2012 draft.
These picks are projected to be mid to later first round. (15-25 for both)
One of them is from the Clippers thy acquired in the Perkins trade and one is their own.
Jermaine Oneal is an expiring contract so the Cavs are just taking him on so the Celtics can add Verajao.
Aims:
1) Move Verajao to a playoff contending team who can use his hustle/size/youth and rebounding
2) Ensures that the Cavs get destroyed in the paint for the rest of the season and thus fall to the bottom of the conference which equals lottery pick/picks.
This sounds like tanking, but it takes the Cavs away from a middle of the road/ scraping to get to the playoffs team that will lose in the first round, to a guaranteed lottery pick.
Verajao is great, but he's not a game changer right now for the Cavs- he's a role player. He's winning the Cavs too many games and one could argue it's keep them from getting another top 3 pick in the loaded 2012 draft. (think of who they could pick).
I think this means the Cavs would have their own early pick (lottery pick), the pick from the Heat and two Celtics picks, plus their late first round pick if they drop that low.
So 5 picks in the first round of the 2012 draft.
Do you pull the trigger?
What about one of these picks+Jermaine+ a young big man from the C's instead of a second pick?
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0 recs | 56 comments
Uh, maybe? I don’t want any of the Celtics players thats for sure. And we don’t have the Heat pick or another late first rounder…so this would give us 3 first round picks. I think we can get something better than this for Varejao.
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 4, 2012
I want picks but we already have two picks, and there is no reason to have four rookies on the team next year. That’s just dumb. If we could flip 15 and 25 for 10 (impossible) then yea, I’d do it.
What young big man from the C’s do you want?
johnf34 - February 4, 2012
Nobody
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 4, 2012
Exactly.
johnf34 - February 4, 2012
No. No. No. No.
We would have to hit on 1 of those picks to replace Andy, and that best way to do that would be to package those 2 picks to move up. So we would be trading Andy to improve our own pick and a chance at getting a new Andy. Plus, screw the Celtics.
Danieldelamaiz - February 4, 2012
^^THIS
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 4, 2012
I don’t think you give up Andy unless you can get something pretty damn amazing. If the Cavs can be back in the playoffs in another year or two, I want to see Andy on that team – he’ll still be awesome.
OutEast - February 4, 2012
It’s not just about the picks you acquire.
It’s about getting a lottery pick and significantly improving your team with a superstar.
You get two picks, which you may be able to trade for a higher pick, or you can hold onto them for future use.
BUT, you will ensure your squad a place in the lottery and there you will get your replacement for Verajao in potentially the number 1, 2 or 3 pick in one of the best drafts in a decade.
Do you honestly think the Cavs are going to be anything but a first round playoff exit for the next 2 years? Irving needs another star to help him.
Imagine if you guys landed Drummond or one of the top 5 guys.
It’s like moving Verajao for capspace,two picks AND another Kyrie irving type player at the four or 5 position.
Then you become real contenders in 4-5 years from now.
The Cavs aren’t getting anywhere with Verajao and Jamison for at least a year and no one is taking on Jamison’s garbage deal.
It’s about gambling and giving up a solid 7 foot role player and maybe making the playoffs in a year or two, or accepting how good the rest of the league is and going for the ultimate choice in a completely loaded draft.
Chambers - February 4, 2012
I just don’t think the players we’d get that late in the draft would be worth Varejao…he’s got 3 more years on a very affordable deal. Also, why wouldn’t anyone take Jamison’s expiring deal? That doesn’t makes sense. It’s a good deal if a team is trying to clear more cap space.
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 4, 2012
Jamison is gone after this year, last year of his contract.
Right now, our own pick would be about 10th in the draft, plus we have another 1st rounder. What would we do with 2 other picks that may well be in the twenties? Giving up Andy is not worth two picks that might yield some back of rotation guys + improving 5-7 spots for our pick.
We don’t need cap space, our last bad contract is gone with Jamison after this season.
Danieldelamaiz - February 4, 2012
You're not understanding the point of this..
Do you think the Cavs have a realy shot with Irving, Verajao, and a number 10 pick?
There is Chicago, Miami, Philly, OKC, Memphis, Indiana- all teams that are going to be very good for the next 5-8 years depending on how long their stars stay elite.
The Cavs need a top3 pick in this years draft to even think about competing with those teams. Of course giving up Verajao hurts, because he is a great player and team member.
But his play is only keeping the Cavs head above water and ultimately they are sacrificing the chance at the number one pick by having him on their roster.
If you don’t like getting two first round picks for him and an expiring contract, that’s fine.
But ask yourself this:
Does keeping Verajao hurt us in the long run if we really want to be a legitimate contender with Kyrie Irving. Imagine Irving +Drummond instead of Irving +Verajao.
There will be plenty of great young kids from the 15-25 spot this year too that you will pick from.
I just doubt you can get more than two first round picks for Verajao- contenders aren’t giving up top 10 picks for him, or solid role players in return, but keeping him keeps the Cavs in a state of mediocrity for years.
Chambers - February 4, 2012
I'll just add, that other teams would be so envious to be in the position to trade for a top 3 pick
And all you’re giving up is an above average role player.
I don’t want to play down Verajao, and how important he has been to Cavs partial success over the years. But if you can get a top 3 pick by moving him AND two more picks in the same draft?
Chambers - February 4, 2012
Yes. Yes, I do think the Cavs have a shot at developing into a contender over the next couple years with Irving, Verajao, a #10 pick this year, TT, a boat load of cap space to fill out the rest of the roster with complementary pieces, and two more first round picks next year.
Larry Barkin - February 5, 2012
so you can do it with Irving, Verajao and a #10 pick...but
You can’t do it with Lebron, Verajao, Shaq, Jamison, Williams…..
What makes you think it will be any different?
Chambers - February 5, 2012
Irving is awesome in the 4th quarter
ChewyFL - February 5, 2012
You’re telling me that we werent a contender in 08-10? Please.
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 5, 2012
Exactly right. The Cavs were the best team in the NBA for those two years. Just because they didn’t make the Finals or win the title doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have won the title or weren’t a championship-caliber team. That’s just a dumb statement.
Buckeye Brad - February 5, 2012
Exactly right. The Cavs were the best team in the NBA for those two years. Just because they didn’t make the Finals or win the title doesn’t mean that they couldn’t have won the title or weren’t a championship-caliber team. That’s just a dumb statement.
Buckeye Brad - February 5, 2012
People just don’t realize there’s no reason to trade Andy. Jamison? Yes. Sessions? Maybe. You don’t just trade your second best player and emotional leader when he’s got three years left for late first round picks.
johnf34 - February 4, 2012
so how do the cavs compete for the next 5 years without landing a top 5 lottery pick this year?
Trading Sessions and Jamison don’t change your lottery fortunes.
Moving Verajao puts you at the bottom of the conference, and gives you a chance to land a superstar.
It’s fine if you’re happy with a 8-10th ranked team in the Eastern Conference, but if you want to compete properly you have to get your hands on another superstar. You have Irving, you need another superstar piece and you’ll be set.
Chambers - February 5, 2012
I’m fully aware the only chance to compete is to get a superstar. I don’t think many people here are as upset as I am that the Cavs keep winning. I want us to lose enough to get a top 5 pick but it’s not going to happen this year.
johnf34 - February 5, 2012
So trade Verajao and you get your top 5 pick, and two more first round picks to play with...
Chambers - February 5, 2012
what if Drummond doesn’t come out? What if half the kids we think are coming out don’t? What if we trade Verajao and everyone else steps up and does well enough to keep us at the 10 spot? You don’t know who is going to be in the draft let alone the end of the draft. Usually not much talent at end of 1st round. Its a ton of things that would need to go perfectly to make this worth it.
Say the draft is as deep as you think 10th spot could land us a top tier(star) wing player, which then we sign a couple real good FAs with the cap space.
ChewyFL - February 5, 2012
I don’t want three or four first round picks. That’s ridiculous. I want Irving, a top 5 pick from losing and Varejao.
johnf34 - February 5, 2012
And I want Lamb/Barnes/Beal. I think it is ludicrous to trade Andy. If you watch a couple games there’s no argument to move him.
johnf34 - February 5, 2012
I’d rather have Kidd-Gilchrist than Barnes. He’s been sensational this year.
Buckeye Brad - February 5, 2012
You can get Lamb or Beal in the 8-10 range. That’s plenty good.
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 5, 2012
Maybe.
johnf34 - February 5, 2012
But you can always trade two of those picks for a higher first round pick (or future picks). I agree that we shouldn’t trade Andy unless we get blown away with an offer but it would be hard to pass up having that many first round picks (in a loaded draft). It gives you so many options.
Buckeye Brad - February 5, 2012
If we get 11 and 14 for Andy I’ll do it because we could trade those for 7 maybe. If we get 22 and 25 do you really want to do it? I be the highest we could get with those is around 16.
johnf34 - February 5, 2012
Well, if we’re really serious about wanting to lose it might only make sense to move Andy. It’s a hell of a lot harder to get a top five pick with him on the team.
That said, the only way I’d be okay trading Andy is if we got a great offer. Jermaine O’Neal and two picks from playoff teams doesn’t quite cut it for me.
sexsalad - February 6, 2012
Thank You...
for applying basketball knowledge and common sense to your posts!!!
… and Harrison Barnes is a stiff and nothing more than a role player, who will have an even smaller imact than Joe Smith did in the NBA.
dasho - February 17, 2012
Don’t.
Better not to be obligated to two\three “time consuming” rookies, each needing his minutes to “develop”, Alongside Tristan Thompson – who is a very raw rookie and will probably sharpen things up only by getting many minutes this year and the next…
I do not think it is probable to work out.
It might be good to keep Anderson, see what the draft brings and act afterwards. If you have the chance to take the best second guard in the 2012 draft, but you take a lower-talent center because you have nothing but air to fill the position – than you didn’t do very well..
cats&shoes - February 5, 2012
If I am trading Andy, its for a lotto pick this year
OPace - February 5, 2012
Agreed
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 6, 2012
And a young development player at least
teamrobhogg - February 6, 2012
I completely, 100% agree with the sentiment, but only a contending team would make that move.
Are there any playoff-level teams who hold a pick from a bad team from a trade? I can’t think of any off the top of my head.
sexsalad - February 6, 2012
The Rockets have the Knicks pick..?
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 6, 2012
We think alike. Its why I have come to the thought that we keep Andy.
OPace - February 6, 2012
Hollinger has us projected to have the 9th worst record in basketball. Barnes, Kidd-Gilchrist, Lamb, Beal, shouldnt all be off the board by then with Davis, Drummond, Jones, Robinson, and Sullinger on the board as well.
However, after those 9 players there does seem to be a pretty big dropoff (and i agree with the people down on Sullinger’s pro prospects). After that you are starting to gamble on Cody Zeller/Meyers Leonard type players.
Would anyone do a varejao for evan turner trade? I am fully aware of Turner’s weaknesses, but he has been better this season, can score a bit, defends, fills a need for us, etc.
Irving
Turner
Gee/Casspi
Thompson
Drummond
scoring will be difficult, but we would have cap space and that is a team that can definitely defend and is incredibly athletic. Hollinger says the trade costs us 5 wins this year. (i added in Elson trade as filler to make it work).
davidzavac - February 6, 2012
I’d probably ask for Philly’s late first rounder as well.
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 6, 2012
also, the Knicks are aggressively shopping Amare, per Chad Ford. a straight up Jamison for Amare trade works. cant see either team doing it, really, but Amare with a real point guard again would be nice to see. if you think Kyrie looks good on pick and rolls with Andy …
davidzavac - February 6, 2012
No thank you on Amare
Conrad Kaczmarek - February 6, 2012
Amare would be in the Top 5 guys in the league who I don’t want based on their contract and talent. And while it actually would make sense for them to get out of Amare and back into the FA market they’re not going to cut their losses.
johnf34 - February 6, 2012
It’s spelled V A R E J A O guys, get it right, you’re killing me
teamrobhogg - February 6, 2012
I was wondering if someone would say it, haha.
johnf34 - February 6, 2012
NO.
Unless we’re going to get a rookie who is somehow going to pull down almost 10 offensive rebounds a game while also scoring 15-20 points or Minnesota for some reason wants to give us Kevin Love, no thank you on trading Andy for anything!
We have pieces we can move, Andy is not one of them.
King Tony - February 6, 2012
2011 nba draft, picks 20-25: donatas motiejunas, nolan smith, kenneth faried, nikola mirotic, reggie jackson, marshon brooks
2010 nba draft, picks 20-25: james anderson, craig brackins, elliot williams, trevor booker, damion james, dominique jones
2009 nba draft, picks 20-25: eric maynor, darren collison, victor claver, omri casspi, byron mullens, rody beaubois
NO THANKS.
FrenchToast979 - February 6, 2012
Exactly. There’s no value in the 20’s in the NBA draft. We don’t want the Lakers and Mavericks picks for Ramon Sessions and we shouldn’t want Boston’s for Varejao either.
I expect about 10 recs on this.
johnf34 - February 6, 2012
Hey, we could trade Andy and draft an Omri Casspi, this is…wait. Wait, wait wait. Something’s wrong with this logic. I’ll figure it out, just give me a minute.
Danieldelamaiz - February 6, 2012
Ah a refreshing bit of research.
hans - February 6, 2012
Should we try to acquire some late first rounders to the Nets so they can acquire another Marshon Brooks? I mean, he’s going to average 20 points per game for 10+ years on consistent NBA title teams right?
johnf34 - February 6, 2012
Sessions – I don’t see anyone offering much more than a #20 first round pick for Sessions. Lakers are struggling so maybe their pick is #17- #19 and they’d throw a body, but I don’t like anyone they’d include, Matt Barnes, McRoberts?? I like Sessions, but we need help in other areas more. What’s a reasonable/likely offer for Sessions?
Richi - February 6, 2012
I happen to agree with both Conrad and John here. Keeping Andy and getting a pick in the top 10 range is just as good in this draft as if we were to be in the top 3.. AND, it is a lottery we still have a chance in being in the top 5 even where we stand now.. How did we get Irving last year? It was with the Clippers pick which should have been worse than Clevelands! I say keep Andy, and pick up a wing man like Lamb or Beal, or to be honest Id LOVE to have Kidd Gilcrest along side Irving.. We would be in better shape not only next year but in two or three years.. And with the rep that Irving is building for himself, FA WILL want to come here.. Unlike what his predecessor did.
jdelsandro - February 6, 2012
Keep Andy for sure
Trade Sessions and Jamison. Losing two key scoring pieces off this team should be enough ensure a solid lottery pick. In a dream world, I would love to get two mid level first rounders THIS YEAR. (For Sessions this may be reasonable, but for Jamison this may be a stretch. Need some desperation on a fringe playoff team).
Just shooting from basically nothing here. The depth in this years draft is pretty ridiculous. Especially at PF. But I don’t think that is what the Cavs need. They need wings. Barnes/Kidd-Gilchrist would a great pickup with the first pick, maybe a Rivers with the first mid-rounder, and if Fab Melo comes out he’d be a good get with the third first round pick. That would give us an extremely talented young core, with solid depth as well.
However, this is extremely unlikely. Maybe just one additional first rounder and a young player instead. Again, going off nothing here, but maybe a player like Nikola Vucevic from the Sixers.
vottomatic - February 7, 2012
Bill Simmons is a nut rider for the Celtics
Do not trust anyone from Boston who is a sports writer. This is definitely meant to draw attention on sport’s writing homer Bill Simmons. Anderson Varejao is irreplaceable for the Cavaliers. If he wasn’t, every team in the NBA with a chance to make the playoffs would not be willing to trade everyone on their roster, sans the Superstars. In a day in age when no one wants to do the dirty work, yet tweet and complain as if they are owed something, Anderson Varejao is a selfless, whirlwind of hustle sacrificing his body equally for a rebound or charge in the first quarter as he would in the fourth. Post players take way to long to develop and even then who knows what type of player they will be after they get their first big contract. We know who Anderson is and so does the rest of the league. If high draft picks made a team, then by sheer dumb luck Minnesota, Sacremento, and Toronto should already be playoff contributors by now. It’s time to let Boston become old and irrelevent and then attempt to buy some of their wholesale parts/players after this strike-shortened season ends.
dasho - February 17, 2012
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